My Sol Ark has the ability to use its generator port to charge a small stationary AGM battery bank. It presumably uses some protocol to turn the generator on and off to prevent overcharging the batteries. Is it the same protocol Ford uses with its Charge Station Pro / Home Integration Station to implement bidirectional charging?
Using Lightning with a hybrid inverter?
- Thread starter steven
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I contacted Sol Ark and this was their response:
"Our generator input accepts any stand alone 240V split phase power source (2 hots legs). The fact that the neutral is bonded in the circuit at the truck is ok. So, based on this it sounds like the proposed configuration would work. However, we have not tested capability with a configuration like you described, nor am I super familiar with the specifications of the output capabilities of the truck, so please do your due diligence. We're always happy to help with any additional questions you have regarding the inverter side of the configuration.
Have a great day! Regards, John Michael Fuhrmann Engineering Support P: 972-575-8875 Ext. 2 E: [email protected]"
I did not ask about bidirectional charging and only asked about using the 240V outlet in the truck bed to input the Sol Ark and the neutral bond issue. I would contact John at Sol Ark with your question.
"Our generator input accepts any stand alone 240V split phase power source (2 hots legs). The fact that the neutral is bonded in the circuit at the truck is ok. So, based on this it sounds like the proposed configuration would work. However, we have not tested capability with a configuration like you described, nor am I super familiar with the specifications of the output capabilities of the truck, so please do your due diligence. We're always happy to help with any additional questions you have regarding the inverter side of the configuration.
Have a great day! Regards, John Michael Fuhrmann Engineering Support P: 972-575-8875 Ext. 2 E: [email protected]"
I did not ask about bidirectional charging and only asked about using the 240V outlet in the truck bed to input the Sol Ark and the neutral bond issue. I would contact John at Sol Ark with your question.
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MarkC
Member
Using the Lightnings 240 VAC outlets directly as a "generator" input to either a home sub-panel or to a storage based solar inverter system for "battery charging" would seem to be doable and useful. This assumes that the Sol Ark inverter has the generator based battery charger capabilities built in for your particular battery storage system. Hopefully, this will be proven in practice soon for us all to know.
The question asked by Steven is very interesting. This is what I've learned about the "home integration system":
The only "bidirectional" capability for home integration is using the "pro" version charge controller that passes the high voltage DC directly to the 4k Sunrun inverter - that in turn outputs the 240 VAC split phase power to a home sub-panel. The "pro" CC will only pass the AC power from the grid to the on-board charger of the Lightning. Does not seem possible to use AC VAC as a generator input as there is no bidirectional capability of the on-board charger.
IMO, the "home integration" system is so limited (at 4kW) that it is not very useful and much too expensive. If Sunrun does a full integration with their larger storage based solar inverters, it could be much more useful.
Note that these are my observations based on the available wiring schemas the the Delta Inverter systems that Sunrun uses.
A good forum to check out the Sunrun system/Ford Lightning:
www.f150lightningforum.com
The question asked by Steven is very interesting. This is what I've learned about the "home integration system":
The only "bidirectional" capability for home integration is using the "pro" version charge controller that passes the high voltage DC directly to the 4k Sunrun inverter - that in turn outputs the 240 VAC split phase power to a home sub-panel. The "pro" CC will only pass the AC power from the grid to the on-board charger of the Lightning. Does not seem possible to use AC VAC as a generator input as there is no bidirectional capability of the on-board charger.
IMO, the "home integration" system is so limited (at 4kW) that it is not very useful and much too expensive. If Sunrun does a full integration with their larger storage based solar inverters, it could be much more useful.
Note that these are my observations based on the available wiring schemas the the Delta Inverter systems that Sunrun uses.
A good forum to check out the Sunrun system/Ford Lightning:
Home Integration System (Delta/Ford via AEE Express) Component Change?
I noticed today that there was a change to the specs being reported on the AEE Express web page for the Ford H.I.S. that indicates Ford/Delta/Sunrun/AEE are switching from the E10_BDI model to the E4_BDI part number for the inverter component of the H.I.S. (Source below.) Check out the...
www.f150lightningforum.com
PALMTREEENERGY
New member
The Sol-Ark inverter does have the capability to charge the battery storage using the generator breaker built into the sol-ark.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #5
I have an appointment next week to discuss wiring my Sol Ark generator breaker for connectivity to Lightning's 240V output. Don't know about other hybrid inverters but a small bank of AGM batteries combined with the much larger battery of vehicle-to-home capable EVs like the Lightning seems like the way to go given the expected long-term shortfalls in lithium and other battery manufacturing components.
The way I read Sol Ark's specs, not only can Lightning's battery keep the AGMs charged, it can use Lightning's 'generator' for sustained power output in excess of the nominal 9.6kw for normal operation:
MarkC
Member
Steven, If OK with you could you post an overview of your home wiring schema - mainly to see how you have configured the home panel(s) in the "generator" backup mode powered by the Lightning's battery. For me, even 9.6 kW would not power my entire home panel, so I'd need to either use a separate sub-panel, or shutoff a number of home panel breakers before using the Lightning as backup (grid failure mode).
thanks
thanks
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #7
I believe the way this is done is identifying critical branch circuits in your home and placing them in a separate 'critical loads panel' (CLP) to which power from a backup source is transferred in the event of a grid failure. If you don't have at least a backup power source, e.g. AGM batteries, and probably solar panels as well, there are most likely better, less expensive ways to use your Lightning's battery for home backup power than a hybrid inverter like Sol Ark.
Anyhow, here is my CLP:
MarkC
Member
Thanks Steven - appears you're doing this right! Let us know how is works in actual operation.
JamesKlafehn
New member
You would need to tap the HV wires which would void your warranty. Another way would be to hack the CAN system to see if you can find the code to tell the truck to close the HV contactors and send power back through the CCS plug. Probably very very difficult to do.
This is stuff I work on. You should check out my youtube channel. I have done a ton of this stuff. I plan on doing it to the Lightning too but I havent had time.
youtube.com/jamesklafehn
This is stuff I work on. You should check out my youtube channel. I have done a ton of this stuff. I plan on doing it to the Lightning too but I havent had time.
youtube.com/jamesklafehn
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #10
I am getting ready to join the ranks of Lightning owners tapping their batteries through the 240v truck bed socket. My electrician explained there is more risk to the truck from power faults doing it this way than there would be using the HIS and Charge Station Pro. See the electrician’s explanation below. I know there are quite a few Lightning owners who have tapped their truck batteries this way. Has anyone had trouble with faults yet?
Anyhow here is the proposed wiring for my connection:
I currently have the output from an SMA inverter AC coupled to the Sol Ark 12’s generator breaker. I’m told this was necessary because Sol Ark 12s only support input from two types of PV panels. I am investigating replacing the SMA panels with panels compatible with the two strings currently connected to the Sol Ark. The purpose will be to AC couple the output of a BDI_10 inverter to the Sol Ark breaker currently used by the SMA.
What I hope to discover is how much of the functionality of Ford’s Intelligent Home Backup system remains with this architecture. This may seem like a convoluted, expensive way to go but replacing a working system supported by an installer with more than 20 years of experience and a solid reputation for support with Sunrun would, I fear, be even more expensive. My current operating PV system already has an automatic transfer switch and 260ah of AGM battery backup.
The primary goal, however, would be the insurance I would gain in preventing circuit damage to the truck or even a battery fire in my garage by using DC circuitry to transfer power from the truck’s battery to my home grid.
Comments and suggestions appreciated.
Thanks,
Steven
Here is the electrician’s explanation:
With the truck powering the house, you’ll see we have opposing bonded neutral connections. Since the truck’s chassis is insulated from earth by the tires, it doesn’t have a reference to earth ground. This creates that parallel ground path I’ve mentioned, since electricity wants to take the path of least resistance to ground. The X’s in boxes along the return path show how it can “crash” into itself along the way. This crashing is usually evident in real life by equipment blowing up because of the amount of energy sustained in a fault.
If I understood his explanation, with the CSP / HIS power from the truck is supplied using direct rather than alternating current, reducing the risk from the neutral bonded ground in a power fault.
solarfunnc
New member
Hi Steven, did you get the BDI working with the Sol-Ark as described? Could you share the wiring diagram you used, if so? Thanks.
